Yet another chance...

Well, I have taken a long leave of absence as far as IAS interview is concerned. Last time I appeared in 2007. Of course , its not an annual festival you pay visit to every year. But rather, in a more clichéd term, a life time opportunity. Here I was, at it again. My interview was dated 31st of March, 2010.

In a band o f five candidates to be interviewed by a board, I was the first to be let in. It was an hot afternoon, around 2.45. The board was Prof. Purushottam Agarwal.

Here goes the transcript:…

Entered the hall and wished everyone. There was a lady member in the panel.

Chairman: (CM) You are Guganesan?
Me: Yes Sir.
CM: You have a very interesting hobby. Watching Hollywood movies and noting down memorable dialogues. Not many people would have that hobby. Can you give me one dialogue?
Me: Yes Sir. This is from a movie called “The Bucket List” .You measure yourself by the people who measure themselves by you. ( . There is instant laughter from one of the panel members. I started explaining by saying, What I learn from this is….then chairman gestured no need for that)
CM: The movie is Bucket list? Is it a new movie?
Me: Yes Sir. It was released in the year 2007.
CM: Do you watch classical movies?
Me: No Sir. I don’t watch Classical movies. I only watch movies released in 1980s and 90s. But I would include Godfather.
CM: But Godfather is not classical. It was released sometime in 70s.
Me: Yes Sir. It was released in 1972.
CM: Can you give me one dialogue from Godfather? ( He mentioned a dialogue which he felt is widely quoted and asked me to say anything other than that. But I could not quite get what he said)
Me: A man is no man when he does not spend time with his family. I learn some family values from this, sir. It is important for one to spend time with their family.
CM: Oh, You learn family values from Godfather?
Me: Yes Sir. It depends on how one takes it. It talks about how we should relate in a family. It shows relationship between father and son.
CM: (as he kept laughing) Yes it tells you how to deal with your Son-in-law. When Michael’s sister cries , he goes beats him up.
Me: Yes that is true. But it depends on how we see it.
CM: Of Course, it is very much a family value. It means you take good care of your sister.
Me: Yes sir ( and smiled at him)
CM: Now talking about family values. It is all changing now. Joint family has become nuclear family now. Personally, which one do you prefer?
Me: Sir , I prefer Nuclear family. Because I would want my Son and Daughter to grow with their grandparents and learn good values from them. (Without realizing my mistake)
CM: You mean you prefer Joint family.
Me: (realizing my mistake and got little disturbed) Sorry Sir. What I meant is Joint Family.
CM: Its ok. Be relaxed. But in a joint family you have chachas and chahis and Tau..You understand Chacha and Tau…(I nodded my head saying I Understand Hindi, Sir)You have to listen to them also. You lose your personal space. What do you think?
Me: Sir here Uncle Should know that it is not good to interfere in the personal affairs of his nephew or niece. Everyone should have some family values.
CM: You know these days you have pension schemes and retirement plans. You must have seem HDFC plan ad. I don’t know what they say in tamil. In hind it says, “ Sar utake jiyo” …raise your head and live. Father does not want to depend on son. They want to take care of themselves. What do you think?
Me: Yes sir. Those plans are for ensuring regular income in the future. But parents get old. They can not take care themselves. Children should take care of them. And it is father’s value that he should not be dependent on son. But a son should have a value that he would take good care of this parents.
CM: Talking about this issue, recently there was a law passed regarding this. Do you know that law?
Me: Yes sir. It was 2 or 3 years back. It is called Old age Protection Act.
CM: What does it say?
Me: It makes it a duty on the part of the children to take care of their parents. And parents feel that they are not being taken care of by their children, it can be legally enforced. They can deny property rights to children. Law of inheritance do not apply by default here.
CM: Why should government regulate that? It is a personal affair in a family.
Me: Yes it is a personal affair. But government has to enact such laws. The concept of geriatric care is important. Children should take care of their parents. Government has to control population. This is one such measure. Many family would have to take care of their parents. So in order to cut down expenditure they will have one child instead of two children. It is good for the country, Sir.
CM: Is there any other law that deals with such family issues? Like laws protecting women.
Me: Yes sir. We have Dowry prohibition Act and there is a recent law passed. I am not able to recollect the title of the law. It gives protection to women against members within the family.
CM: Domestic Violence Act.
Me: Yes sir. Domestic Violence Act.
CM: State is enacting so many laws. Listen to this carefully. It is a serious issue. There is an observation made by the sociologist. State would only become too powerful by enacting too many laws. What is your view?
Me: Yes it is true. But State should enact such laws to inculcate values in society. At the same time they have to balance between state’s responsibility and one’s personal affairs.
CM: Recently Supreme Court made an observation that there is one law that is being used too much. Supreme Court pulled up some police officials and there was a lady involved in a case. Are you aware of any such thing?
Me: I’m sorry Sir. I have not come across any such thing .
Chairman now pointed to the member to his left. He Started asking questions.
Member 1(M1) : So you are a chartered Accountant . From the Balance sheet, how do you judge the values of a company?
Me: We can ascertain that from the networth of the company. And if the company is listed we can also make use of EPS i.e earning per share and P/E ratio. i.e Price earnings ratio.
M1: How do you find out P/E ratio?
Me: The formula for P/E ratio is MPS divided by EPS. MPS market price can be readily available. EPS is calculated by taking profit from the P & L account and dividing it by Number of shares.
M1: Suppose you are my financial advisor. There is a company with a P/E ratio of 7 and there is a company with a P/E ratio of 20. which is a good company?
Me: The company with a P/E ratio of 20 is a good company.
M1: Are you saying a company in which I have to pay twenty times more to earn Re.1 is a good company.?
Me: No Sir. We should not see it that way. High P/E ratio indicates the confidence that investors have placed on the company. It also conveys the future growth potential of the company. Also we should not see the returns in terms of dividend alone. We should also look at the capital appreciation that the company is providing.
M1: Ok. Now suppose there is a company with a P/E ratio of 20 and another company with 40. which is a better company?
Me: Sir, company with P/E ratio of 20 is still a better company. Because very high P/E ratio also could mean that shares are overvalued. So we should balance between low P/E ratio of 7 and high ratio of 40.
M1: Suppose instead of 40 if I give you 15. Between 15 and 20, which one you will choose?
Me: In that case we will have to look into other parameters also. We should compare the growth potential of the companies.
M1:Okay now, considering one economy as a company, like they say India Inc., what are the basis which you can use to judge?
Me: Sir, the first one would be GDP, Tax-GDP ratio , Fiscal deficit, Debt-GDP ratio. These are the parameters to judge the economy.
M1: But going by you parameters, and taking USA. There is nothing good except GDP. It has got highest amount of debt and very high Fiscal deficit.
Me: I was taking from India’s point of view. But as far as USA is concerned the debt and fiscal deficit is largely due to economic recession.
M1: No no….leave this last two years. Even for the last 20-25 years USA has been having huge debt. (Chairman also joined in Supporting him and the said M1 is economist)
Me: I’m sorry I was under the impression that USA’s deficit is largely due to recession.
M1: Now in spite of so much of debt why USA is considered as the powerful economy?
Me: Sir, this is largely due to their high GDP. USA’s dollar is almost considered as the world currency. And their companies are performing well and they have their presence all over the world.
M1: Now tell me broadly what should the economy focus on ?
Me: Sir , an economy should focus on increasing its tax revenue and at the same time it should focus on the social sector needs of the economy. ( Chairman reacted to this positively)
M1: Can the economy have a very high tax rate and very low spending?
Me: No Sir. Too much of high tax rate and low spending is not good for the economy . it should balance between the two. It is very important that social sector needs are fulfilled
M1: Now consider Tata-corrus. And Bharti is buying assets in Africa. Leaving out whats in it for Tatas and Bharti, tell me what is in it for the Indian economy.
Me: Sir, it will bring in new technologies for India.
M1: What is the technology involved in mobile company and there is nothing we can learn from Africa?
Me: Sir, Mobile services are picking up. Selling mobile services needs lot of marketing strategies. We can learn marketing strategies from them.
M1: But don’t you think $10 billion is little costly for marketing strategies.
(Chairman interrupted by saying Bharti can very well send some research team to learn the marketing strategy) Other than that what else is good for the economy.
Me: (I was thinking hard) Sir, It will enhance the tax revenue for the country.
M1: Yor are also a tax expert (he said that since I was a CA). Tell me how it will increase tax revenue. Bharti is in India. The other company is Africa.
Me: Sir, Under Income tax law the taxation is based on residential status. Bharti is a Resident company. And if the African company is controlled and managed from India, it will also be considered as resident. In this case the control lies in India. So it will be taxed in India.
(Member 1 nodded to that and passed on to the next member)

Member 2: Tell me is India a oil producing company or oil recipient company?
Me: Sir, India is oil receiving company. India imports 75% of its oil requirements from abroad.
M2: Yeah, that’s what I wanted to know. Now tell me how we can reduce this dependence on foreign countries?
Me: Sir. Many Indian oil companies like ONGC are investing in oil well abroad. We should invest more in oil-rich countries. We should also focus on non-conventional energy resources like solar energy and wind energy.
M2: But non-conventional is a long term measure.
Me: Yes Sir. But India is already making progress. India has become the third largest wind energy producer.
M2: But suggest some short term measure.
Me: Sir, recently many oil companies like ONGC and others demanded RBI for Forex reserves for buying assets abroad. That is a good measure. We can follow that.
(M2 signaled that he is done. Chairman pointed to the lady member to proceed)

Member 3: Guganesan, tell me you have done your B.com, M.com and then C.A. Chartered Accountants are paid well and they are all well off. Why do you want to join civil service?
Me: Madam, I had the desire to join civil service even before I decided to do CA. It started as a childhood ambition and later I was inspired by an IAS officer. She always told me that civil service is a good career and is all about to public service and one can cater to the needs of the society. That’s why I chose civil service.
CM: What is that officer’s name?
Me: Sir, her name is Mrs. Sabitha IAS.
M3: Where is she now?
Me: She is posted as Managing Director in Tansia in Chennai.
M3: Ok. Now tell me what is in it for India , in case of Bharti buying assets in Africa?
( I had no ideas why she was asking a same question asked by Member 2)
Me: Madam, It will bring new technology and tax revenue.
M3: Tell me something other than that.
Me: Sorry Madam. I can not think of any other benefits at the moment.
M3: You are from Kanchipuram. Tell me what kanchipuram famous for.
Me: It is famous for silk sarees and temples.
M3: What is the major crop in your district?
Me: It is paddy and sugarcane.
( Now she had finished with her questions. Chairman asked the last member to continue.)

Member 4: Looking at SSI it is doing very poorly. It can not survive amidst large industries. What is your view on that?
Me: Yes Sir. That is very much true. Government has taken many measures. It has passed a MSME development act. Now government has to take steps in skill development. Many people are unemployed in rural areas. They can be trained and employed in SSI.
M4: Take partnership firms. They are charged at a very high rate of 40%. But many big companies evade tax. ( Then he mentioned something which I could not understand. Later chairman said he is talking about Direct tax code. Are you aware of that? )
Me: Yes sir. I am aware of DTC. Government is trying to bring down tax rates . In case of companies it is planning to reduce tax rate to 25% from 30 %. I think it will benefit SSI also.
M4: Government is proposing tax agricultural income. What is your view on that?
Me: Sir, presently tax on agricultural income falls in the state list. Now government planning to introduce GST which is Goods and sales tax. GST would subsume many taxes. In such case it will become possible to bring tax on agricultural income under that.
( Then Chairman takes over.)

CM: Now one last question. Tell me five freedom fighters from U.P and Bihar. Other than two Nehrus.
( I was thinking very hard. Then chairman said oh! Come on there are so many freedom fighter from the two states)
Me: I am not able to get the right names. There are too many names coming to my mind.
(After some time,)
I said…. Sir, Rani Lakshmi Bai. ( Everybody laughed)
CM: Ok. That’s one. I thought you will say someone from modern era. Someone in 1920s.
Me: ( after another few seconds of thinking) Sir, Bhagat Singh. But I am not sure about it.
CM: Though he spent most of his time in U.P he is from Punjab. So I will not include him. Ok. There is one from U.P he went on to become the President of India.
Me: (after thinking hard) I’m sorry Sir . I am not able to get the name. ( Later Chairman said he is Rajendra Prasad.)
CM: Now tell me, where did Gandhiji start his first start his mass struggle in India. In India. Not South Africa.
Me: Sir, it is Gujrat.
CM: No it is Bihar. In Champaram district. Ok. Your interview is over. You can leave.

Then I thanked the chairman and others and left the room.

A day with UPSC....

In my post last I had discussed about the 13th of April, the day that was fixed for my interview. First, I was thinking if I should sit here in front of the computer and type the entire details about it. Then for the sake of record I decided to do that. Here’s the transcript. (please leave your comments)

I was put under Dr. Bhure Lal’s panel. And I was the third person to go in the group of 5 candidates. I was waiting for my turn outside when the second candidate was being interviewed. He was out and said the panel members were very cordial. He wished me best of luck and left. I asked the attendant for some water before I was to go in. As luck would have it, there was no water there and he had to go to fill the bottle. Meanwhile the door was opened for me by another attendant there. I did not wait for the water and delay the process that was to begin. So I entered the room with mouth almost run dry.
There was a lady member among the 5 panel members,including the chairman.
First I wished the lady member and then others.
I was asked to take the seat by the chairman.

Chairman (CM): hello! Guganesan. How are you??
Me: I am very fine, sir.
CM: (he looks at the form again) G ganesan (and just moved his body forward)
(I sensed here that he was in a good mood)
Me: ( I just smile at him) yes sir, Guganesan.
CM: So, you are a chartered Accountant.
Me: yes sir!!
CM :why do you want to come to civil service after CA?
Me: sir, I had decided to join civil service even before doing CA. In fact after clearing my CA I came for civil services preparation immediately.
CM: What is money laundering?
I explain that to him
CM: What is the link between terrorism and money laundering?
I tell him about how terrorism is funded ,about drug deal and all that.
CM : what are the three stages involved in money laundering???
I started explaining. There he stopped me and asked “ do u know the stages or not”
Me: No sir. This is all I know
Then he explained me the stages with its specific names (this was moreover close to what I said, except for the jargons he used)
CM: What are the duties of CA under prevention of money laundering Act?
Me: sir, I’m not aware of any provisions under the Act.
CM: oh, I though they’ll teach u all that in CA.
CM: how much is our Forex reserve?
Me: sir, its 199 billion dollars.
CM: ok, that’s fairly 200 billion dollars. Do you think we are secured?
Me: yes sir. It is said we have so much of reserve that it can fund 13 months of our imports.
CM : I don’t feel secured.
Me: (after giving serious thought) May I ask you why,sir.
(Both the chairman and the lady member bursted in to laughter )
CM: Yes. You have every right to ask me.
( He explained me the reason to which I almost agreed)
CM: How do you manipulate stock market?
I explained him about insider trading, one of the manipulative practices.
CM: why there’s so much of volatility in the stock market now?
I gave two reasons and explained them.1. hike in interest rate. 2. Appreciation of Japanese yen.
Then the chairman showed sign for the lady member to ask questions.

Member 2 (M2): Guganesan, explain over invoicing and under invoicing in foreign trade.
I explained her about that transfer pricing practices which related companies follow.
M2: ok. That relates to transfer pricing . Tell me in general. Suppose I’m an exporter in Tiruppur and you’re my client. I’m billing you at a price less that what it actually is.
I explained how it affects India and said the balance proceeds can be siphoned off to someother countries ( I guess she was looking for that word ‘siphon off’. After I said that she seemed more convinced)
M2: do you think India should accept foreign aid? I want your opinion on that.
Me: Yes Ma’am. I feel India should accept foreign aid. Although India is a developing country and sitting on huge forex reserve it needs so much of fund to finance our infrastructure needs.
M2: Ok. What is the legislation that regulates foreign aid.
Me: (think for a while) Ma’am ,its foreign contribution regulations Act.
M2: that’s. right. But do you think we need such kind of legislation. You know, NGO’s accept lots of foreign aid . do you think it needs to be regulated?
Me:Ma’am I’m not aware of the detailed provisions under the Act. But I know that NGO’s are under an obligation to file some kind of return with RBI after the receipt of the aid. I feel we should have these kind of regulations. B’coz some accountability is ensured on that part of NGO’s . It ensures that money is spent for the said purpose.
M2: But that’s between NGO and the foreign agency why should govt get involved.
Me: yes ma’am. Its true that its only between NGO and foreign agency .but NGO’s involve in social sector projects. So I think that it concern the government. So there is need for regulation.
M2: Ok.what are the preferences u’ve given?
Me: Ma’am I’ve given IAS as my first preference and IFS -2nd, 3rd-IPS and 4Th IRS.
M2: (she just smiled and nodded her head )ok, thank you. (she showed her hand to the third member) I just thanked her and looked in to the eyes of the third member.

M3: who are mafia?
I just gave an vague explanation.
M3: can we call phoolan Devi mafia?
Me: No sir. Mafia operate as network. They are widespread. Whereas Phoolan Devi just had a set of people.
M3: tell me who are the constituents of this Mafia.
Me; (I think for a while. Couldn’t really make out where the discussion is heading) sir, mafia would have set of musclemen.
M3: ok. They’re field staff. But what it takes to organize a crime?
Me: they need a proper plan before anytning is to be committed. And they collude with people on the other side.
M3: who are this people on the other side?
Me: sir, it’s the officials of the government.
M3: do you know chartered accountants play a major part in legalizing their money?
(here I realized why he started this discussion. So much of grudges against CAs, I thought)
Me: sir, there would be very few chartered accountants who are involved in such activities.
M3:Very few? (he looks at the papers in front of him) u’ve given reading as your hobby. What kind of books you read?
I answer that .(both fiction and non fiction)
M3: Have you read this book called “ Sacred game” by Vikram Chandra.?
Me: No sir, I haven’t read that.
M3: Read that book. It talks about how chartered accountants involve in legalizing the mafia’s money. They’re even called counselors.
Me: ok sir I’ll read that.
M3: what is the legislation that exclusively covers organized crime?
Me: no sir, I’m not aware of any specific legislation.
M3: ok. Blogging is your other hobby. On what kind of issues you write.
Me: sir, I have not restricted myself to any field. I write on anything that is interesting . It could be something interesting that happened in my life.
M4:like?
Me: once I wrote about the rag picker boy in my street. (I explained what I wrote in that post. The lady member seemed to be interested too although I dint make any eye contact with her)
M3: So you are interested in human behaviour?
Me: yes sir, u can say that.
M3:ok, now looking at the psyche of Indian people. Why there’s so much of adulteration in our country. Its not found much in other countries. Why only this subcontinent?u know, law allows some qty of stone in rice. There’s adulteration in drugs. Why is it so.
Me: sir, its because of the erosion of values among people in our country. India is a country where so many movies made every year. I think people pick such things from these movies.
M3: but adulteration has been there even before the movies came.
Me: yes sir. That’s true. But after movies these things increased in numbers.
M3: but where do we learn all this. Does historical books and religious books teach us?
Me: no sir. Our religious books and historical book don’t teach us these practices. I think its people’s desire to make easy money. They come out with new ideas and get involved in such things. I think its all about money, sir,
M3: suppose there’s a shop keeper who mixes stones in rice. One day his son falls sick. He buys medicine which is adulterated and his son dies. Do you think he’ll change.
Me: sir, it depends on the person. If he’s really learnt a lesson from this incident I think he’d change.
M3: I don’t think he’ll change.
(he thanked me and put me onto the 4th member)

M4: so you are from kancheepuram. What’s the name of the famous temple in your town.
Me: sir, its kamakshi amman temple.
M4: what is the name of the legendary who laid the statue there?
Me: I’m sorry sir. I’m not sure of the name.
M4: its adi shankara. How far is that temple from your house.
Me: sir, its 2-3 kms from my house.
M4: oh, so close and still u haven’t bothered to find out that. What is the relationship between culture and reading?
Me: sir , If one person had been unaware of his culture, he can know them by reading any books. That way one can come to know about one’s culture and get them imbibed in his life.
M4: what is culture?
Me: sir, culture is one’s way of life. One’s way of dressing, food habits. It covers these many things.
M4: why do we have so many myths in our life?
I explain him something.
M4:no,,no. u have not really understood what is myth. U know we celebrate diwali.someone killed someone.
Me: (having got the flash in mind)yes sir. We have these kind of festival in life. Although they are based on myths they bring our families together. We celebrate and stay happy. It even disciplines our lives.
M4: “churning milk out of sea” what do you interpret on this.
Me: (almost puzzled) its like getting the best out of something which is in abundance.
M4: how education has churned u?
ME: (having no clue how to address) sir, eduction has helped to meet people from different background. I have learnt to interact with them. And also I;ve been able to understand the values in their life and tried to take it if they are good.
M4: why filmstars are raised to the level of god in tamilnadu?
(M3 interrupts and says even temples have been built)
I explain something .
M4: that’s there’s everywhere. There’s one particular reason. What is it?
Me:no sir. I can’t think of any particular reason.
M4: ok, think on ur way back u;ll get it.
(he thanked me and passed onto the 5th person)

M5:I’ll just ask you few questions. (I was happy to hear tht)
How do you classify land?
Me: sir, agricultural land and non-agricultural land.
M5:ok. That’s one way of saying. U know , u can classify it as mainland and hinterland. (I uttered the word ‘hinterland “along with him, as he was very slowly talking)
And we have islands. Tell me the name of an island in Arabian sea.
Me: sir. Its lakshadweep.
M5: what is the total surface area?
Me:no sir, I’m not aware of that.
M5:ok, I thought since u were staying close to that place u might know that. Ok. Why British came to India, first?
Me: Sir, they came for trade.
M5: but there’s one incident that prompted them to rule India. What is it?
(Here this member was very vague in framing this question. Then the M3 explained it in a better way for me.)
Me(after serioulsly thinking) no sir, I have never come across any such incident.
M5: now I’ll give u a topic. I want you to deliberate on this and speak for and against. “All people who come for civil service preparation should not do that”
(I know it sounds confusing)
I spoke about why people want to come to civil service. Reasons like public service, improving the functions of govt. For against the topic I said there;’s so much o f corruption and abuse of power.Said “ civil service is even considered first resort of scoundrel “
(only after coming home I realized that what I spoke under :For” was actually “against” and vice versa. )
M5: do you really think people come for service?
Me: yes sir. There are many people who come for preparation with the public services in mind. In fact, I’m one such person myself.
(then M5 looked at the chairman. )
CM: guganesan, you interview is over . you can leave.

I thanked everyone and left the room. Wow. What a relief when I came out. Now I have to wait for the results. That could be anytime during the second week of May.

Here is another transcript of interview I had on 31st March,2010:
http://junkunlimited.blogspot.com/2010/04/yet-another-chance.html